Difference between revisions of "God's Tips for Groups"

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(Doing "Good Works" together - freeing others from Darkness - requires personal spiritual preparation, which belongs on a Saltshaker agenda. But not to the exclusion of planning Light-Shining, without which, spiritual development is stunted)
(Don’t waste precious time talking about what we can’t (or won’t) do anything about)
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Don’t report news whose outcome you are unwilling to change. Of course, we should monitor other important battle fields than the one we especially engage, so we can shift support as needed, when needed, whether our support is our wisdom, our money, or contacting critical people. But where there is no vision of action, ever, there is no need for talk.
 
Don’t report news whose outcome you are unwilling to change. Of course, we should monitor other important battle fields than the one we especially engage, so we can shift support as needed, when needed, whether our support is our wisdom, our money, or contacting critical people. But where there is no vision of action, ever, there is no need for talk.
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'''Opposites: "Good Works" vs. "foolish questions".''' Titus 3:8 tells us "good works" are "profitable". "Profitable" and "unprofitable" denote two conditions which are opposite of each other. When that which is "profitable" degenerates, it moves towards the "unprofitable" end of the scale. And vice versa.
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By calling "good works" "profitable" and "foolish questions..." "unprofitable", is God hinting that good works can degenerate into foolish questions? That the two are opposite ends of the same scale? Is this our everyday experience? Is there more definite Scriptural support for such a concept?
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Perhaps, indeed, it is our everyday experience that "good works" degenerate into "foolish questions".
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Our first impression would be that the opposite of "good works" is "bad works". Maybe, but that is not the spectrum indicated by Titus 3:8-9. Yet it is a familiar, everyday experience for our "good works" to degenerate. We don't need to wholly forfeit our salvation and give ourselves to Satan for our good works to wholly degenerate.
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But when that happens, the opposite is not "bad works", but something else. First they become "half-hearted works". Then one becomes inactive; actions, or "works", cease, giving way to talk. And at first the talk which replaces action may seem worthwhile. Profound. Wise. So as to justify the pursuit of wisdom at the expense of action. But the longer one remains inactive, the less able one is to hold wise insights without facing the reality that one should be acting. So one must either begin doing "good works" again, or one must degenerate further, until the pursuit of knowledge is more and more abstract, more and more irrelevant, more and more frivolous.
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This is a familiar, everyday pattern, in ourselves and in our Christian brothers, by which "good works" degenerate all the way to "foolish questions".
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And then just as we have become as irrelevant as it would seem possible, it is also a familiar experience to watch the pendulum swing back again.
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When "foolish questions" start to turn around, they may become "reasonable questions" and then "wise questions", but the person finally asking "wise questions" still has room to improve: he can keep on improving until he is not merely thinking about wise questions and searching out their answers, but he is doing something about them -- he is applying what he knows to how he lives -- he is doing "good works".
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If this is true - if this is what God means by Titus 3:8-9, then what makes inquiry "foolish" is lack of relevance to how we live, and what we do. What is the purpose of a doctrine which doesn't affect how we live? Surely many of the doctrines which divide "churches" today fail this test.
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But besides everyday experience, is there any other Scripture which more definitely tells us the relationship between "good works" and "foolish questions"?
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Here is another familiar passage which indicates that the test of whether a doctrine is "profitable" is whether it affects how we live:
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''James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.''
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In saying "shew me thy faith without thy works", James sarcastically mocks the very idea that anyone can exercise faith independently of action! James is ridiculing the very idea that "faith" can be defined as mere intellectual belief! What a foolish idea, that anyone can really believe, intellectually, that Jesus died for us and rose from the dead, without gratefully taking action, such as charging ahead with witness so effective that it invites persecution?! What nonsense!
  
 
==Don’t talk about evils that can’t even be documented==
 
==Don’t talk about evils that can’t even be documented==

Revision as of 03:03, 13 October 2019

Forum (Articles) Offer Partners Rules Tips FAQ Begin! Donate

This article was started by Dave Leach R-IA Bible Lover-musician-grandpa (talk) 09:59, 28 September 2019 (UTC). Your response to anything you read here is most welcome. If your improvement is minor, add it with or without signing your name. If you anticipate possible disagreement, please add your response next to what you are responding to, distinguish it with horizontal lines above and below, and sign your name with 4 "tildes". If your reaction is not to any specific part of this article, please add general comments on the "Discussion" page. The original version of this article was published at ipatriot.com on Thanksgiving Day, 2017.

Overview

Secular meetings are kept orderly and democratic by Robert's Rules of Order. Christian meetings can be kept not just orderly, but respectful and bathed in love and humility, helping Christians develop their love, by discussion rules based on the Bible. Please help us towards that goal.

"Saltshaker Forums" is not an official name for a particular group, but is a description of open forums where people discuss which mountains of evil they are going to pull down together, and strategize how to do it.

Contents

Order

We need rules that keep discussion orderly, productive, sensible and friendly

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly [insubordinate, disobedient] and vain [Gr: senseless, 
or mischievous] talkers and deceivers... 11 Whose mouths must be stopped,

1 Peter 5:5 ...Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility:...

Luke 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger;
...he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

How can everyone be "subject to" one another - 1 Peter 5? One step is through rules agreed to by the whole group. Secular forums, such as political party conventions, have rules committees which decide what rules the whole group will follow when they meet. Rules committee members are chosen by members of the whole group, and the rules they produce must be approved, after debate and amendment, by the whole group. Robert's Rules of Order provide this system.

The whole Bible ought to be studied as a guide for human relationships; the rules created here can have no other value than their attempt to apply Biblical principles to modern situations. They can have legitimate authority over Christians only to the extent their applications are legitimate.

An individual group may judge that some of these rules and explanations are incorrect; if so we hope they will improve them. A group may judge that these rules are too complicated for their needs, and may adopt only a fraction of them. A group may choose a moderator, or to only have rules and to mutually share the function of moderating, depending on the size and personality of the group. The logical criteria for a moderator would be mastery of whatever rules the group adopts, and readiness to guide participants in following them. The group needs to make a decision its members can honor.

Discussion rules are unnecessary where there is little discussion - where interaction is dominated by a Leader who does most of the talking, controls the topic, and treats other subjects brought up as digressions which normally don't take more than a minute. Agreement is not critical; it is not even important to know how much agreement exists.

But when a group moves beyond just talk to planning for action which requires everyone's wisdom, as well as readiness to act together, agreement becomes far more important, so the discovery of disagreement becomes far more disturbing. God's rules help develop the relationship skills we need to work and reason together in harmony, respect, and love.

As with Robert’s Rules of Order, it isn’t necessary for every participant to know these Scriptures. If a few know them, that will make them available when there is a need, as far as the needs of the group are concerned.

But individuals have needs beyond those shared by the group. The benefit to every individual of mastering these rules, and the Scriptures that are their basis, is that they nurture the relationship skills we need to reason with each other even when we disagree. Those relationship skills will not only help us pull down Darkness, but will help us strengthen our marriages, families, friendships, workplaces, communities, and churches. They will enable us to reason with unbelievers, ala 1 Peter 3:15, bringing revival closer.

Rules are offered as guides, not imposed as chains

1 Timothy 1:9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, 
but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for 
unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for 
manslayers, 10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, 
for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing 
that is contrary to sound doctrine; 

Galatians 3:23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto 
the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24  Wherefore the law was our 
schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.  
25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.  
26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 

Mark 2:27  And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man 
for the sabbath: 

“Rules” help the “unruly” become productive. “Law is...made...for the lawless”, 1 Timothy 1:9. But it isn’t just “the other guy” who is in need. We need help, ourselves, developing our ability to reason with others even when we disagree, in Christian love.

Rules teach us, Galatians 3. They are made for our benefit. We are not made for their benefit, Mark 2. Penalties for violating rules are not needed for people who are already trying as hard as they can to live by them.

Our culture provides a school for these relationship skills which The Darkness has nearly destroyed: Family. God offers another school of skills able to heal families and other relationships: the 1 Corinthians 14 Fellowship. As conflicts arise, we need to continually meditate on the Word of God for solutions.

Jesus established a new measure of authority, which has become the foundation of Western Civilization: service. People choose authority which they judge will best serve them.

Bible Commentator Albert Barnes says of 1 Timothy 1:9,

The law is not made for a righteous man - There has been great variety in the interpretation of this passage. Some suppose that the law here refers to the ceremonial laws of Moses (Clarke, Rosenmuller, Abbot); others to the denunciatory part of the law (Doddridge and Bloomfield); and others that it means that the chief purpose of the law was to restrain the wicked. It seems clear, however, that the apostle does not refer merely to the ceremonial law, for he specifies that which condemns the unholy and profane; the murderers of fathers and mothers; liars and perjured persons. It was not the ceremonial law which condemned these things, but the moral law. It cannot be supposed, moreover, that the apostle meant to say that the law was not binding on a righteous man, or that he was under no obligation to obey it - for he everywhere teaches that the moral law is obligatory on all mankind. To suppose also that a righteous man is released from the obligation to obey the law, that is, to do right, is an absurdity. Nor does he seem to mean, as Macknight supposes, that the law was not given for the purpose of justifying a righteous man - for this was originally one of its designs. Had man always obeyed it, he would have been justified by it. The meaning seems to be, that the purpose of the law was not to fetter and perplex those who were righteous, and who aimed to do their duty and to please God. It was not intended to produce a spirit of servitude and bondage. As the Jews interpreted it, it did this, and this interpretation appears to have been adopted by the teachers at Ephesus, to whom Paul refers. The whole tendency of their teaching was to bring the soul into a state of bondage, and to make religion a condition, of servitude. Paul teaches, on the other hand, that religion was a condition of freedom, and that the main purpose of the law was not to fetter the minds of the righteous by numberless observances and minute regulations, but that it was to restrain the wicked from sin. This is the case with all law. No good man feels himself fettered and manacled by wholesome laws, nor does he feel that the purpose of law is to reduce him to a state of servitude. It is only the wicked who have this feeling - and in this sense the law is made for a man who intends to do wrong.

The Bible is our rule book

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins 
be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; ...

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days 
reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass three days after, that they found him in the Temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions: 
47 And all that heard him, were astonied [astonished] at his understanding and answers.

We should search the Bible for how to reason together in Christian love, because the Bible, as in no other religion, is where we find Reason and Truth the ultimate weapons against evil, with the sword raised only in self defense.

God begs us to reason together, which was Paul’s “manner”, or way of presenting the Gospel. It was how Jesus began His ministry at age 12, and it is the manner in which God presents the Four Gospels: out of the 146 situations in which Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, only 20 – 1/7th – were not verbal interaction with others. And Jesus never censored, or discouraged, verbal interaction.

In fact, neither Jesus nor Paul nor anyone else in the Bible are recorded as ever telling anyone "now don't interrupt me for the next half hour because I will be giving a sermon which no one may question or clarify." Reasoning is the Bible rule, so the Bible must surely show us how to reason in love.

Secular meetings from courts to legislatures to corporate board meetings to Parent-Teacher Associations have rules that are some adaption of Robert’s Rules of Order. Such rules aim for civility and productivity, but not for Christian love. Roberts’ introduction says his goal was “a set of rules for conduct at meetings, that allows everyone to be heard and to make decisions without confusion.” Which is a goal given in 1 Corinthians 14:40. That is certainly a goal of love. But perhaps people reasoning with each other would feel more love if their rules were clearly based on and related to Scripture.

Roberts’ contribution certainly merits our consideration as we search the Scriptures. Many churches have adapted his rules. But Roberts gave no Bible references in support of his rules. Surely deeper relationships are possible when interactions are guided by Scripture than when merely bound by convenient rules that do not credit God.

Free Speech Zone

All may challenge, correct, and comfort each other, exercising the full range of Christian communication


1 Corinthians 14:3 But [in a Christian meeting] he that prophesieth 
speaketh unto men to edification, [οικοδομην, to build up, strengthen, 
inspire] and exhortation [παρακλησιν, to respectfully correct, implore], 
and comfort [παραμυθιαν, to give comfort and solace]. ISV: But the person 
who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding, encouragement, and 
comfort. BBE: But the word of the prophet gives men knowledge and comfort 
and strength.
(1 Corinthians 14:3 defines “prophesy” as encompassing the full range of Christian communication. Notice that the BBE translation calls the person who prophesies a “prophet”. The Greek contains only the verb “prophesy”, not the noun “prophet”. Many Bible commentators and scholars over the centuries have been confused by the statement in chapter 12 that only a few are “prophets”, but in chapter 14 all are called to “prophesy”. A simple comparison with singing can explain this. Everyone is called to “sing”, the verb, but only if you sing very well are you awarded the noun: you are a “singer”. Much confusion has resulted from imagining the difference is absolute, which Scripture does not say. Common sense and everyday observation reveal that the difference, whether of singing or of any other “Holy Spirit Gift”, is relative and variable.)

ALL. Seven times in 1 Corinthians 14, the most detailed format of a Christian meeting in the Bible, “all” are urged to “prophesy”. (Verses 1, 5, 12, 24, 26, 31, 30) The general meaning of the word “prophesy” [προφητευων] is to bring a message from God. Verse 3 explains the sense of the word meant in this chapter.

CHALLENGE. “Edification” means “architecture”, “help them grow”, “upbuilding”, and “building up”, according to Strong’s and the GW, ISV, and TLV translations. To “challenge” captures its sense.

The Greek word is οικοδομη. It combines οικια, meaning house, and δομα, meaning gift.

CORRECT. “Exhortation”, KJV, ranges from comfort to encouragement to “persuasive discourse” to “stirring address” to “admonishment” (correction), to “powerful hortatory discourse” (ie. a “fire and brimstone” message) according to Thayer’s Greek dictionary. These phrases describe correction that inspires, persuades, and comforts as well as warns. The Greek word is παρακλησισ.

Yet in this American generation, “correct” is in disrepute, either the noun or the verb, so the following translations fall back to the politically correct “encouragement”: Berean, CEV, Darby, ERV, GNB, GW, Holman, ISV, NET, NIV, NLT, TS2009, and Weymouth translations.

ASV, Geneva, JUB, NAB, Webster, WEB and YLT stick to the rather obscure “exhortation”.

COMFORT. The “comfort” we are called to give each other is almost the same word as the Holy Ghost which Jesus sent us. The former is the feminine gender of the word, and the latter is the masculine gender. John 14:26 says “The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost”, teaches us “all things”, and reminds us of everything Jesus has told us.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 is about God’s “comfort” for martyrs who are suffering for their faithfulness, which enables them to share the same comfort they receive with others who also suffer.

Whoever speaks needs to let others interact

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 

This rule summarizes the whole purpose of Robert’s Rules of Order: that in a group of, say, 200, the group may benefit from all 200 bp (brainpower) instead of just a few bp.

Where only one speaks, the group enjoys only 1 bp.

Where a “main speaker” takes “audience questions”, several bp are available, although the “questions” are very limited by time, usually are limited to literal questions, and are restricted to the one topic.

Where there are no rules, only the bp of the loudest, rudest talkers is available.

Roberts’ Rules guarantee the bp of all present, especially through its system of committees.

This verse states that God’s rules, if followed, reach the same goal, but better: not mere human bp, but revelations from God.

So when God reveals something to someone else, let him stand to speak, and let the current speaker wrap up his point with no further redundancy and sit down.

Does this verse authorize anyone to stand up and change the subject? It doesn't say so explicitly. It might imply that if it weren't for the following verse.

(The verse does not explicitly say one who wants to speak should stand to get attention, but the verse sort of implies it, and a person standing is much easier to notice than a hand raised. Especially when a hand is raised in the back of the room.

(The verse doesn't even explicitly say people should stand while speaking, but it is the practice in all but the smallest groups today and throughout historical records, because we speak louder when we are standing, and because we can be better heard, especially our consonants, when our mouths are in a line of sight with listeners' ears. That's because consonants are carried by the highest frequencies of our voices, 2,000-4,000 hz, which do not go around or through obstacles like low frequencies do. That's why sound systems place the tiny tweeters up high while the heavy subwoofers can be an the floor. The everyday experience proving these facts is that when your neighbor turns up his music some distance away, you hear mostly the bass, and hardly any of the higher pitched instruments or voices.)

Agendas should be approved by vote of the group

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

This passage entrusts the whole assembly, rather than one person – not even a pastor, with responsibility for meeting content.

Neither does this passage favor a “prophet” who suddenly starts speaking, interrupting whatever else may be going on, ostensibly “under divine inspiration”. Several Bible commentators agree.

The Popular New Testament Bible Commentary explains:

The statement is thus in glorious contrast with demoniacal impulses, under no control of consciousness and rational will (such cases, for example, as Act_16:16-18; Act_19:13-16), and with all wild, incontrollable ravings. The Divine gift of prophecy left the gifted in full possession of their own faculties, enabling them to regulate and exercise their gift according to their own judgment of propriety as to the time and the mode of its exercise.

Matthew Henry adds:

...the spiritual gifts they have leave them still possessed of their reason, and capable of using their own judgment in the exercise of them. Divine inspirations are not, like the diabolical possessions of heathen priests, violent and ungovernable, and prompting them to act as if they were beside themselves; but are sober and calm, and capable of regular conduct. The man inspired by the Spirit of God may still act the man, and observe the rules of natural order and decency in delivering his revelations. His spiritual gift is thus far subject to his pleasure, and to be managed by his discretion....“Ye can (if ye will) prophesy one by one,” that is, restrain yourselves from speaking all together; “and the spirits of the prophets,” that is, their own spirits, acted on by the Holy Spirit, are not so hurried away by His influence, as to cease to be under their own control; they can if they will hear others, and not demand that they alone should be heard uttering communications from God.

Bible commentator John Darby:

The spirits of the prophets (that is to say, the impulse of the power in the exercise of gifts) were subject to the guidance of the moral intelligence which the Spirit bestowed on the prophets. They were, on God's part, masters of themselves in the use of these gifts, in the exercise of this marvellous power which wrought in them. It was not a divine fury, as the pagans said of their diabolical inspiration, which carried them away; for God could not be the author of confusion in the assembly, but of peace.

Bible commentator John Gill:

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Meaning either that the doctrines which the prophets deliver, the explanations they give of passages of Scriptures, the revelations they declare, are subject to the examination, judgment, and censure of other prophets; who have a right to try and judge them, either according to a more clear revelation they may have, or rather according to the sure word of prophecy, the Scriptures of truth; and indeed they are subject to the trial and judgment of the whole church, and therefore ought not to be stiff in their own sentiments, and obstinately persist in them, but cheerfully and readily submit them to be examined, and approved or disapproved by others; and particularly when one that sits by signifies he has something revealed to him, which will better explain, or give further light into what the speaker is upon, he ought to submit and give way to him; and thereby truth may be made manifest and established, instruction, edification, and comfort promoted, and peace and order preserved:

or else the sense is, that the spiritual gifts of the prophets, and the inspirations and instincts by which they are acted, and the affections which are excited in them, are subject to themselves, so that they can use, or not use those gifts; though they have the word of the Lord they can forbear speaking, as Jeremy did, for a while, and as the case of Jonah shows; or they can refrain themselves and be silent, and wait till they have proper opportunity of speaking, being not like the prophets of false gods, who are acted by an evil spirit, and observe no order or decorum, but with a sort of fury and madness deliver involuntarily what is suggested to them: but such is not the case of true prophets that are influenced and directed by the Spirit of God, who will give way to one another; one will be silent while the other speaks, and by turns prophesy one after another; and where there is not such a subjection, it is a sign that the Spirit of God is not in them....

Bible commentator Albert Barnes:

…they were able to control their inclination to speak; they were not under a necessity of speaking, even though they might be inspired. There was no need of disorder. This verse gives confirmation to the supposition, that the extraordinary endowments of the Holy Spirit were subjected to substantially the same laws as a man’s natural endowments. They were conferred by the Holy Spirit; but they were conferred on free agents, and did not interfere with their free agency. And as a man, though of the most splendid talents and commanding eloquence, has “control” over his own mind, and is not “compelled” to speak, so it was with those who are here called prophets....

In this the spirit of true inspiration differed essentially from the views of the pagan, who regarded themselves as driven on by a wild, controlling influence, that compelled them to speak even when they were unconscious of what they said. Universally, in the pagan world, the priests and priestesses supposed or feigned that they were under an influence which was incontrollable; which took away their powers of self-command, and which made them the mere organs or unconscious instruments of communicating the will of the gods. The Scripture account of inspiration is, however, a very different thing. In whatever way the mind was influenced, or whatever was the mode in which the truth was conveyed, yet it was not such as to destroy the conscious powers of free agency, nor such as to destroy the individuality of the inspired person, or to annihilate what was special in his mode of thinking, his style, or his customary manner of expression.

Cambridge Bible:

The possession of a special gift from on high has, from Montanus in the second century down to our own times, been supposed to confer on its possessor an immunity from all control, whether exercised by himself or others, and to entitle him to immediate attention to the exclusion of every other consideration whatsoever. St Paul, on the contrary, lays down the rule that spiritual, like all other gifts, are to be under the dominion of the reason, and may, like all other gifts, be easily misused.

A holy self-restraint, even in the use of the highest gifts, must characterize the Christian.

If a man comes into the assembly inspired to speak in an unknown tongue, the impulse is to be steadily repressed, unless there is a certainty that what is said can be interpreted, so that those present may understand it.

If he comes into the assembly possessed with some overmastering idea, he must keep it resolutely back until such time as he can give it vent without prejudice to Christian order, without injury to that which must be absolutely the first consideration in all public addresses—the edification of the flock.

Estius justly remarks that the difference between God’s prophets and those inspired by evil spirits is to be found in the fact that the latter are rapt by madness beyond their own control, and are unable to be silent if they will. And Robertson illustrates by a reference to modern forms of fanaticism the truth that “uncontrolled religious feeling” is apt to “overpower both reason and sense.”

Bible commentator Adam Clarke:

And the spirits of the prophets, etc. - Let no one interrupt another; and let all be ready to prefer others before themselves; and let each feel a spirit of subjection to his brethren. God grants no ungovernable gifts.

Here is an example of how this principle could be applied to setting a meeting’s agenda:

Moderator: “At the end of our last meeting you voted to give Brother ___ 8 minutes to explain his interest in ____, and for my topic, you asked that a part of it be a Bible study on whether Matthew 25:39-46 indicates a sense in which, although we can’t literally repay Jesus, we can ‘pay it forward’.

“Now as we begin our meeting, four agenda proposals have been presented to me for your consideration. First is from Brother ___, who requests 1 minute to announce his engagement! Second is from Sister ____, who requests 3 minutes to report progress on food distribution discussions. Third is from a 4-member committee of our members, who request 5 minutes to summarize their witness at a school board meeting, and the response there, and to allow a couple of minutes to take questions. Fourth is from Brother ___, who has passed out a flier about ____ and requests 4 minutes of discussion to learn your responses. Only the fourth item was submitted as a time sensitive matter.

“In addition to these requests for time before the whole assembly, we have six announcements by small committees requesting volunteers for discussion, prayer, and action. I will read these announcements and ask you to indicate by raising your hand if you are willing to help those committees. ____

“Is there any discussion of these proposed agenda items before we vote?”

Robert’s Rules of Order offer a variety of ways members can influence the agenda.

Legislatures have a tightly organized system that favors the will of the majority in a very intense setting full of deadlines: the majority party elects one person to be the Speaker, whose principal duty is actually not to speak, but to moderate, and to set the agenda, along with assigning members to committees, half of which are by their choice. As he sets the agenda, he favors bills where an unofficial survey indicates enough votes to pass. The controversial part is when he veers from an impartial moderator role to a dictator role, suppressing bills which the majority favor; but his power to harm in this way is limited by the fact that he can be voted out of office by his own party, and by the fact that if he strays too far from the wishes of voters, his party could become the minority after the next election.

Topics of Discussion

We have received much. Let's talk about what we can give, together

Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that 
thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might 
be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost 
his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, 
but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are 
the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on 
a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, 
and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, 
If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done 
to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou 
removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22 And all things, 
whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, 
and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, 
and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, 
be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which 
are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not 
works, is dead, being alone.

1 John 3:14 '''We know that we have passed from death unto life, because 
we love''' the brethren. '''He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.''' 
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer 
hath eternal life abiding in him. 16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, 
because he laid down his life for us: and '''we ought to lay down our lives for 
the brethren. 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, 
and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God 
in him?''' 18  My little children, '''let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but 
in deed and in truth.'''

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, 
nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things 
to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, 
willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against 
the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 

Titus 3:8 lesson: “We don’t want empty talk. We await action, and expect results.” “Profitable” = “gives results”.

“Good works” in this verse is contrasted with “foolish questions” in the next as if they are opposites: “good works” are “profitable”, while a lot of empty talk is “unprofitable”.

Matthew 5:13-16 lesson: Christian faith is not so weak that we are satisfied to merely declare how dark the Darkness is. Our faith is strong enough to plan a very bright Light.

Not just for ourselves, under our safe comfortable “bushel”. For others, who walk in Darkness. Darkness is not a merely intellectual thing. Darkness enslaves people. Truth that does not set people free is not the whole Truth. John 8:32.

Matthew 21:21-22 lesson: Christian faith is not so weak that we are satisfied to merely talk about mountains of evil! God equips us with the power to knock down as many of them as we are willing to pray about, think about, and act against.

Our courage is not so shallow that we barely dare to name the Dragon slaying our family, friends, churches, and nation. Our mission is to face it, and slay it.

Our trust in the promises of Jesus reaches beyond merely complaining about how high the Mountain of Evil is that destroys all we love, all the way to plotting how to make it jump in the lake.

James 2:14-17 lesson: The verbiage in this passage is that faith without “works” (action) is not faith. But the example given is that prayer without action is not prayer! “be ye warmed and filled” is a prayer.

1 John 3:14-18 and 1 Timothy 6:17-19 lesson: John describes American Christians who have “this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him”. How shall we answer John’s question, “how dwelleth the love of God in him?” If we do not “love our brother” enough to “lay down our lives” for him, we “abide in death” and have not “passed from death unto life”.

Can we exist in this condition, and justly trust in our Ticket to Heaven?

God powerfully, graphically calls us to do more than talk when we meet: but the focus of our talk should be to prepare ourselves for action, and to strategize how to act.

Acting together, in love for each other as well as for the victims of the Darkness outside, requires the full range of Biblical discipleship, so many traditional church subjects may require Saltshaker time. But when action is shoved into the remote distance, little urgency is felt about powerful discipleship. It is when action is imminent that the need to grasp God’s lessons about personal development is pressing...

This is personal. This is not about some sterile idea of “politics” – judging right and wrong about some authority remote from our daily lives. This is about destruction that has touched us personally and hurt those we love.

God offers a cure for our depression and despair for all the evil in the world: heal it! Neutralize it so it can never hurt anyone else, ever again!

We aren’t just fighting until Evil leaves us alone. Our “revenge” will be total victory over evil, with good, for all, in our time and for the future.

Don’t waste precious time talking about what we can’t (or won’t) do anything about

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions [stupid inquiries],...for they are unprofitable and vain. 

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to [conversations] which minister questions, 
rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. [TLV: or to pay 
attention to...useless speculations rather than God’s training which is in 
faithfulness.] 5 Now the end [purpose, goal] of the commandment [“all that 
 God has commanded”, Bible commentator Albert Barnes presumes]is charity 
out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From 
which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain [without a goal] jangling;

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned [uneducated, uninformed] questions avoid, 
knowing that they do gender strifes. [ISV: Do not have anything to do with foolish 
and stupid discussions, because you know they breed arguments.] 24 And the servant 
of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

Job 15:3 (GW) Should he argue with ''words that don't help,'' with speeches that don’t 
help anyone? 

Inquiries below our capacity: What are today’s “foolish questions”, Titus 3:9? “Stupid questions” is the choice of several modern translations. “Useless speculations”, says 1 Timothy 1:4. “Foolish and unlearned [uneducated, uninformed] questions [issues]”, 2 Timothy 2:23. “Words that don’t help”, Job 15:3.

“Foolish” and “stupid” are relative terms. They are a measure of intelligence in proportion to one’s capacity. One is in a “stupor” whose brainpower is temporarily far below his potential. A grown man who talks like a 3-year-old is “stupid”, but a baby who talks at all is brilliant.

We who are empowered to move mountains are “stupid”, if all we do is talk about how evil those mountains are, as we leave them standing.

When Christians gather, they need to talk about what they are going to do. We need to pick mountains of evil to pull down, and our talk should be only what is necessary to get us pulling together. Soldiers in battle don’t shoot all the time. Sometimes they have to stop shooting long enough to talk about where to shoot.

The previous verse, Titus 3:8, had said our “constant” focus must the the “maintenance” of “good works”, which are “good and profitable”. “This is good and helps other people”, adds the GW translation. This verse, 9, says “foolish questions” are “vain”.

“Vain” describes talk without a realistic goal, or without any goal at all: talk without action. Vincent's Word Studies says the word (μάταιοι) is frequent in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) but in the New Testament it is found only here, in 1 Corinthians 3:20 and 15:17.

“The sense is aimless or resultless, as μάταιος εὐχή a prayer which cannot obtain fulfilment. The questions, genealogies, etc., lead to no attainment or advancement in godliness. Compare ματαιολογία jangling, 1Ti_1:6; ματαιολόγοι vain talkers, 1Ti_1:10; ματαιότης vanity, Rom_8:20; Eph_4:17; ἐματαιώθησαν were made vain, Rom_1:21; μάτην in vain, Mat_15:9.”

News reports. What a waste of precious mountain-pulling time, to report news that does not motivate people to act, or that doesn't help us understand the mountain of evil we are pulling down. News you can use includes a range of action suggestions and relevant contact information.

Don’t report news that does not motivate people to act, or that doesn't help us understand the mountain of evil we are pulling down. News you can use includes a range of action suggestions and relevant contact information.

Don’t report news whose outcome you are unwilling to change. Of course, we should monitor other important battle fields than the one we especially engage, so we can shift support as needed, when needed, whether our support is our wisdom, our money, or contacting critical people. But where there is no vision of action, ever, there is no need for talk.

Opposites: "Good Works" vs. "foolish questions". Titus 3:8 tells us "good works" are "profitable". "Profitable" and "unprofitable" denote two conditions which are opposite of each other. When that which is "profitable" degenerates, it moves towards the "unprofitable" end of the scale. And vice versa.

By calling "good works" "profitable" and "foolish questions..." "unprofitable", is God hinting that good works can degenerate into foolish questions? That the two are opposite ends of the same scale? Is this our everyday experience? Is there more definite Scriptural support for such a concept?

Perhaps, indeed, it is our everyday experience that "good works" degenerate into "foolish questions".

Our first impression would be that the opposite of "good works" is "bad works". Maybe, but that is not the spectrum indicated by Titus 3:8-9. Yet it is a familiar, everyday experience for our "good works" to degenerate. We don't need to wholly forfeit our salvation and give ourselves to Satan for our good works to wholly degenerate.

But when that happens, the opposite is not "bad works", but something else. First they become "half-hearted works". Then one becomes inactive; actions, or "works", cease, giving way to talk. And at first the talk which replaces action may seem worthwhile. Profound. Wise. So as to justify the pursuit of wisdom at the expense of action. But the longer one remains inactive, the less able one is to hold wise insights without facing the reality that one should be acting. So one must either begin doing "good works" again, or one must degenerate further, until the pursuit of knowledge is more and more abstract, more and more irrelevant, more and more frivolous.

This is a familiar, everyday pattern, in ourselves and in our Christian brothers, by which "good works" degenerate all the way to "foolish questions".

And then just as we have become as irrelevant as it would seem possible, it is also a familiar experience to watch the pendulum swing back again.

When "foolish questions" start to turn around, they may become "reasonable questions" and then "wise questions", but the person finally asking "wise questions" still has room to improve: he can keep on improving until he is not merely thinking about wise questions and searching out their answers, but he is doing something about them -- he is applying what he knows to how he lives -- he is doing "good works".

If this is true - if this is what God means by Titus 3:8-9, then what makes inquiry "foolish" is lack of relevance to how we live, and what we do. What is the purpose of a doctrine which doesn't affect how we live? Surely many of the doctrines which divide "churches" today fail this test.

But besides everyday experience, is there any other Scripture which more definitely tells us the relationship between "good works" and "foolish questions"?

Here is another familiar passage which indicates that the test of whether a doctrine is "profitable" is whether it affects how we live:

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

In saying "shew me thy faith without thy works", James sarcastically mocks the very idea that anyone can exercise faith independently of action! James is ridiculing the very idea that "faith" can be defined as mere intellectual belief! What a foolish idea, that anyone can really believe, intellectually, that Jesus died for us and rose from the dead, without gratefully taking action, such as charging ahead with witness so effective that it invites persecution?! What nonsense!

Don’t talk about evils that can’t even be documented

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables...that turn from the truth.

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables...which minister questions, 
rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned [uneducated, uninformed] 
questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [ISV: Do not have 
anything to do with foolish and stupid discussions, because you know 
they breed arguments.] 

Conspiracy theories. Don’t theorize about conspiracies, like Area 51, setting off demolition bombs in the Twin Towers, jet contrails, a “well to Hell”, control of the world by the CFR or the Rockefellers, or messages from the Virgin Mary, where you have no vision of anything your group can do about it even if you had solid proof.

Health. Don’t take Saltshaker discussion time for health claims like cancer treatments or vitamin supplements where your group has neither the medical training to examine competing claims, nor the willingness to scrutinize detailed studies, nor any vision of action your group could take to change medical laws or regulations. That is the kind of subject that might belong on a physical or online bulletin board for anyone interested for their own use, but does not merit group discussion time which is for getting Salt out of the Shaker and Light out into the Darkness.

Accusations. Don’t accuse anyone, or any organization, without giving those you accuse (or at least their supporters) as much opportunity to defend themselves as they will use.

Don’t accuse before you are ready to do the research necessary to document your accusation solidly enough to withstand all the scrutiny that anyone can give it.

Don’t accuse without a vision of action that your group can take to heal the evil you see. Don’t accuse without love for those you accuse, with the desire for repentance and reconciliation, with no trace of gloating.

Doing "Good Works" together - freeing others from Darkness - requires personal spiritual preparation, which belongs on a Saltshaker agenda. But not to the exclusion of planning Light-Shining, without which, spiritual development is stunted

John 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man 
lay down his life for his friends.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man 
say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?  

There can be no more active action than laying down your life for others! What love that requires! Even just a little activism at just a little personal cost, that takes just a little time, requires perhaps more love than is generally found apart from the influence of the Bible.

Therefore all that God teaches us about love has its place in preparing for action. But learning about love can never progress to love, without action in the course of learning, any more than we can keep filling up our car’s gas tank forever without ever driving anywhere.

To the extent one has love but no resolve to sacrifice for others, one has no love, according to Jesus' definition. Similarly, Light, without resolve to venture into the dangerous, costly Darkness, is like a bullet without a target. It serves no purpose.

Many other Biblical topics have their place in Saltshaker Forums.

Huge goals will not be seriously pursued without believing God’s promises of huge resources.

Enemies can’t be healed and reconciled into friends without forgiving grace and love; hating enemies can perpetuate hostility between people groups for centuries. By loving enemies, persecution may linger longer than we think we can bear but in time love washes away tyranny and oppression with freedom, peace, prosperity, and safety.

Serious study of issues, and the testing of allegations, to make sure we are not marching into spiritual live fire with spiritual rubber bullets, will not proceed without appreciating God’s appeals to be “wise as serpents”, to “love correction”, to “study to show thyself approved”, and to search for wisdom like others search for treasure.

Grief and depressions can paralyze Christians to the extent they don’t appreciate how the creative discernment between good and evil that God has given us in His own Image is satisfied as we interact with our environment to make it better, filling Darkness with Light, Evil with Good, Lies with Truth, Emptiness with Meaning.

But there is nothing that will jump start personal spiritual development like the urgent need for it created by an imminent heavy cost for following Christ, Who is Truth. Testimonies from countries where following Christ is not nearly so safe or comfortable document that even where there has been very little opportunity for formal personal spiritual development, a high cost of discipleship has almost instantly transformed lukewarm believers into lions of faith.

But without any resolve or expectation of venturing into the Darkness, what need is there, even, for Light? It takes very little personal spiritual development to sit in a pew and listen to someone else talk.

In saying "shew me thy faith without thy works", James sarcastically mocks the very idea that anyone can exercise faith independently of action! James is ridiculing the very idea that "faith" can be defined as mere intellectual belief! What a foolish idea, that anyone can really believe, intellectually, that Jesus died for us and rose from the dead, without gratefully taking action, such as charging ahead with witness so effective that it invites persecution?! What nonsense!

Don't Keep an Inventory of Your Merits

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish... genealogies, ...for they are unprofitable 
and vain [Greek: without a goal]. 

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which 
minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 
1 Corinthians 13:5 [Love] ...thinketh no evil... [literally, does not 
take inventory of what is worthless] 

“Genealogies” were a source of pride among Jews. They loved to brag about who their ancestors were, as if that gave them favor with God. Our counterpart could include bragging about how pure our church doctrines are, or about anything else we are proud of.

In fact, the essence of "Prejudice" is to imagine that some difference between us and others makes us superior to others. Genealogy is a popular fuel for this fantasy - the assignment to ourselves of a superior pedigree. Anything else will serve: our own "One True Church", our superior church Doctrines, political party, wealth, social status, skin color – prejudices can be as creative as they are ridiculous.

Matthew Henry: There are needful questions to be discussed and cleared, such as make for improvement in useful knowledge; but idle and foolish enquiries, tending neither to God's glory nor the edification of men, must be shunned. Some may have a show of wisdom, but are vain, as many among the Jewish doctors, as well as of later schoolmen, who abound with questions of no moment or use to faith or practice; avoid these. Genealogies: some lawful and useful enquiries might be made into these things, to see the fulfilling of the scriptures in some cases, and especially in the descent of Christ the Messiah; but all that served to pomp only, and to feed vanity, in boasting of a long pedigree, and much more such as the Jewish teachers were ready to busy themselves in and trouble their hearers with,...

Mormon churches are probably the only churches today which make genealogy study a topic of discussion in their meetings. So is there nothing in other churches today which merits Paul's censure of genealogies? Are there no dark parallels to look for in our practices today, to the use made of genealogies then which Paul sought to end? Are none of our practices today implicated by Paul’s rule?

Church Doctrines. Although the word "doctrines" appears several times in the New Testament, it never means what it does today: a human-created abbreviated summary and characterization of Bible principles which people must agree with as a condition of formal church membership.

The word in the Bible simply meant "teaching". It was never an abbreviated statement, but it meant the entire teaching of someone. Although rejection of righteous teaching was a basis for identifying someone as an unbeliever, there was no such thing as requiring acceptance of doctrine as a precondition for formal church membership, because there was no such thing as formal church membership.

Yet there may be a good purpose for church doctrines as we define them today – summaries of important Bible teachings: to take a public stand for teachings of the Bible at a time when those teachings, along with Biblical authority, are under attack.

The dark use made of church doctrines is to assure yourself that you will go to Heaven because you intellectually affirm them, and to satisfy you that people in other churches who reject your summaries of Scripture are going to Hell.

This dark use defies 1 Corinthians 4:5 which says don’t judge like that before Judgment Day when God will reveal to all of us, each other’s motives. It defies Romans 14 which reminds us that other people aren’t working for us but for God, so we need to let God be the One to decide if their work is good.

Church membership itself is misused as a measure of how good we are, compared with how spiritually bankrupt others are who go to a different church.

Outside church, people have all kinds of measures of merit by which they judge their fellows and exalt themselves: their political party, their wealth, their social status, their skin color – prejudices can be as creative as they are ridiculous.

Prejudice. Indeed, the essence of what is misused about genealogies then was prejudice.

There is a good and a dark use made of genealogies today, as then. The good side extends the principle “Honor your father and mother, that you may live long.” To honor our parents is to appreciate their sacrifices for us, which is evidence that their instructions for us are for our own benefit. Realizing that motivates us to obey their instructions.

This principle is at work in genealogical societies which honor ancestors who have contributed much to the world. For example, descendants of soldiers in the Civil War or in the American Revolutionary War, or descendants of passengers of the Mayflower which sailed in 1620. Such societies skip over all their family tree criminals in between, and honor those whose examples inspire us.

The dark use of genealogies is to wear expensive medals and ribbons and put it on your resume that you are descended from a glorious ancestor, which somehow makes you glorious despite all the criminals between you two. Indeed my 12th generation grandpappy was Richard Warren who sailed on the Mayflower in 1620, which looks grand spanking cool on my resume, and I notice how impressed people seem when I tell them about it. When he died in 1627, his wife, my grandmum, was the first woman in America to vote, as Head of Household over 7 children.

Actually Richard Warren wasn’t even one of the Separatists. The Pilgrims brought with them as many non-separatists as themselves, in order to supply the skills they needed to establish a settlement.

It might be tempting to brag that my link to Warren makes me related to “ President Ulysses S. Grant, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, astronaut Alan Shepard, author Laura Ingalls Wilder (Little House on the Prairie series), actor Richard Gere, Lavinia Warren, also known as Mrs. Tom Thumb, educator and poet Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and the Wright brothers.” As long as I ignore the fact that there might be only 11 people we would like to remember out of 14 million descendants!

I proclaim this information to give glory to God, since it was the Bible studies of John Robinson, their pastor who was unable to leave Holland, which was responsible for a vote given to some women as well as to all men; and not just to church members but even to unbelievers; and not just to “free men” but even to servants! Unheard of anywhere else, outside the Bible.

Robinson left behind 1,000 pages of Bible studies showing exactly which verses were the bases for these freedoms, which spread across America and became the freedoms we take for granted today. I glorify God by the documentary I made of these events, where I interviewed the world’s experts on what happened then, during a triennial convention in Plymouth, Massachussets of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants.

I also built a parade float, a replica of the Mayflower built on a car, which has “sailed” in about 20 Iowa parades in 2018 and 2019, as a warmup for the 400th anniversary of the original voyage. The float proclaims on the side, “They got freedoms of speech and religion, and a vote for all, from the Bible.”

The Saltshaker Forum they created on Sunday afternoons was shaped directly by 1 Corinthians 14 ((they called it a “Prophesying Service” because “prophesying” is the word in that chapter for the robust verbal interaction called for) and many similar but less detailed passages, which are also the model for Saltshaker Forums today.

But not every Mayflower descendant welcomes this glorification of God Whom the Pilgrims (they called themselves “Separatists”) glorified. Some are annoyed when the subject of this very reason the Pilgrims sailed comes up. This suppresses the frequency with which the subject comes up. They want to get discussion back to the relatively trivial details of the customs, technology, and interaction with natives of the time.

For them, the value of Mayflower Society membership is not to study together, and proclaim to the world together, the Gift of God which our ancestors unwrapped in 1620, a blessing for all the people of the world even today, but the value is for Mayflower passenger descendants alone, to brag to the world about what famous family lines they have, never mind the 10 or 12 generations of criminals in between.

The Pharisees similarly used their genealogies back to Abraham to honor themselves, believing that only fellow descendants of Abraham were favored by God. The idea that Abraham’s faith was an equal blessing for all men was not on their radar.

The Pharisees were so impressed with their own spiritual authority by virtue of their genealogy that they didn’t think they needed to listen to Jesus, so Jesus had to explain to them that what gives one favor with God is not who your physical father or ancestor was, but Who your spiritual Father is. John 8:39-44.

Matthew 23:29-36, Jesus condemns the Pharisees for building monuments to righteous prophets, and insisting that had they lived then they would not have persecuted them, all the while persecuting the obviously more righteous miracle-working Jesus – which proves they were descended both physically and spiritually from the persecutors of the prophets.

B. W. Johnson: “Ye build the tombs of the prophets, etc. They honored the prophets and saints by building monuments to them, instead of following their teaching, or imitating their lives. Even Herod the Great, a monster of wickedness, rebuilt the tomb of David.”
Pulpit Bible Commentary on Mat 23:30 “Stier quotes a striking passage from the Berlenberger Bibel: "Ask in Moses times, ’Who are the good people?’ They will be Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; but not Moses,—he should be stoned. Ask in Samuel’s times, ’Who are the good people?’ They will be Moses and Joshua, but not Samuel. Ask in the times of Christ, and they will be all the former prophets with Samuel, but not Christ and his apostles." May the Lord save us from this spirit of unworthy jealousy, and teach us to honour goodness, not only in the remote distance, which is easy, but in immediate proximity to us, which is sometimes, alas for our miserable selfishness! very hard indeed. "Charity envieth not:" follow after charity.”
MHCC: “We sometimes think, if we had lived when Christ was upon earth, that we should not have despised and rejected him, as men then did; yet Christ in his Spirit, in his word, in his ministers, is still no better treated.We sometimes think, if we had lived when Christ was upon earth, that we should not have despised and rejected him, as men then did; yet Christ in his Spirit, in his word, in his ministers, is still no better treated.We sometimes think, if we had lived when Christ was upon earth, that we should not have despised and rejected him, as men then did; yet Christ in his Spirit, in his word, in his ministers, is still no better treated.”


Discussion Etiquette

Criticism that is (a) true, (b) respectful, (c) needed, (d) meek, and (e) reciprocal is loved by the wise

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love 
and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, 
as the manner of some is; but exhorting [Gr: correcting] one another: 
and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 
	
Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are 
spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering 
thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 
	
James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, 
that ye may be healed. 
	
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
	
Ephesians 4:25 ...speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members 
one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your 
wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 
	
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, 
and he will love thee.

Nothing can make criticism so meek as to serve it with confession of one’s own like mistakes. Which we can all do, if we remember from Matthew 5 that desire to sin makes us as guilty before God as if we commit sin.

A shepherd’s rod is his long heavy stick he uses against predators. His staff, with its hook on the end, is what he uses to pull a straying sheep back to safety. God protects us from destruction, and yanks us back from our foolishness, through other humans whenever any are willing. As much self discipline as it takes to love correction, it is easier to take from other humans than from God, as Job 33:6-7 explains (compare with 9:32-35).

“Comfort” is indispensable to Christian fellowship where there is any “correction”. (1 Corinthians 14:3) But not some shallow comfort that fades in proportion to disagreement. The love God calls us to reaches to our enemies.

Few of your enemies can ever hurt you, or cost you, as much as your own children, yet you still love your children. So your enemies should be easy to love.

Don’t stir up division. Get over yourself. Serve your neighbor as yourself. Be honest. Watch your temper. Make yourself useful. Don’t let your words tear down, but build up. Be kind. Forgive as Jesus forgave you – forgive as you want God to forgive you

Philippians 2:3 [Do] nothing in rivalry [Greek: intrigue] or vain-glory, 
but in humility of mind one another counting more excellent than yourselves— 
4 each not to your own look ye, but each also to the things of others. (YLT)

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, 
but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace 
unto the hearers....31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, 
and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind 
one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's 
sake hath forgiven you.

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors....14 For 
if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive 
your trespasses. (See also Matthew 18)

“Personal attacks” - clever insults timed to draw attention from the credentials of the message to the sins of the messenger – divide us from our purpose and from each other

Exodus 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, 
behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, that 
my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I 
will make of thee a great nation. 11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, 
and [listed reasons to save Israel].... 14 And the LORD repented of the 
evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, 
Thou art Christ the Son of God.... (See also Matthew 8:29, Luke 4:34, 
Mark 1:34, 3:11, Acts 16:17-18, James 2:19)

The essence of what we call a “personal attack” is the assumption that if we can discredit a messenger because of his sins, we can get out of listening to his message, no matter how credible his message is, judged on its own merits.

What man is so arrogant that he may regard any others as not worth listening to because of their sins, when God hears his prayers and offers to change history in response?

God listened to Moses and changed history.

Even devils “preach” what many of us would consider “the Gospel”, proving anyone might say something valuable. God offers to listen to all of us and change history to the extent our prayers have merit. Jesus listened to Satan in Job 1 and Matthew 4. In Job 1 He even answered Satan’s prayer! How dare any of us not listen to each other because of our mere mutual guilt!

Certainly there is such a thing as trust earned. Honest researchers whose work we have verified in the past merit less suspicion and scrutiny in the future.

But we should trust no man so completely that we require of him no evidence or reasoning. Nor should we mistrust any man so completely that we will not even listen to his reasoning or evidence.

Although we may be justified in limiting the time we commit to listening to people with a poor reliability track record, when we do listen we need to weigh their words on their merits, not on their source.

If ever there was a messenger questionable enough to make his message not worth listening to, and a man so righteous that he shouldn’t have had to listen to any sinner, it was a tyrant telling the most righteous king in all Israel’s history that the tyrant had a message for the king from God!

That’s what the pagan foreign dictator, Pharaoh-Necho, a man normally not to be trusted according to Isaiah 30:1-3, told the most righteous king of Israel, Josiah, 2 Kings 23:25. Josiah died because he would not listen to Pharaoh-Necho’s warning, through whom God had chosen, that time, to speak! 2 Chronicles 35:20-25. This is a sober warning to us not to dismiss anyone as not worth listening to.

But is there a Biblical argument saying we shouldn’t listen to people whom we can successfully charge with sin? How about the rest of that verse quoted above: Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Why did Jesus silence their “preaching” of what most of us would consider the “Gospel”? Bible commentaries are divided. Patrick Gill says “for he needed not their testimony, nor did he choose to be made known by them”. If Gill is right, that would be an argument for “personal attacks”!

Geneva agrees with Gill: “Satan, who is a continual enemy of the truth, ought not to be heard, not even when he speaks the truth.”

But Albert Barnes speculates that it was the timing: “Jesus was not desirous at that time that that should be publicly known, or that his name should be blazoned abroad. The time had not come when he wished it to be promulgated that he was the Messiah...”

Matthew Henry offers a rather strange theory that the devils were tortured into their confessions – “they said it crying with rage and indignation; it was a confession upon the rack, and therefore was not admitted in evidence.” (The “rack” was a device of torture that stretched people to death.) A more credible theory was “that it might appear, beyond all contradiction, that he had obtained a conquest over them, and not made a compact with them.”

But I notice that the verses don’t say Jesus stopped them from acknowledging Him. They say the devils did acknowledge Him! Then they say Jesus silenced them. Meaning, apparently, from blathering on indefinitely – Jesus wanted them out of there, and the people delivered.

Personal attacks find no justification here.

The Cost of a position is not a reason to avoid it

Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, 
teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's [Gr: money] sake.

When a conclusion or evidence that is costly to accept is avoided without evidence that it is not credible or useful, it is time to examine our hearts.

A confusing message should be interrupted with a request or attempt to clarify, to keep the message from being interrupted by confusion

1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall 
prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the 
tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? f
or ye shall speak into the air. 

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know 
not a man?...45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a 
performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. 

Not all interruption is rude. Some interruption prevents interruption, and is for the benefit of the speaker.

Mary did not question God's power to do the impossible, as Zechariah did 6 months earlier or Sarai 2,000 years earlier. She simply asked how it would happen. She was not in doubt; she was confused, which the angel respected, so the angel explained.

Arguable generalizations are confusing

1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall 
prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the 
tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? f
or ye shall speak into the air. 

1 Corinthians 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

James 3:16  For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Generalizations are appropriate among people who agree about the specific instances that are collected together into a generalization. Where there is not agreement about that, generalizations and exaggerations can only confuse, if not exasperate.

Solving problems, especially problems as big as mountains, requires wisdom. Wisdom is precise information. Generalizations are useful as an overview of established facts. When the facts are arguable, they need to be established before a generalization about them can be useful.

Criticisms. A temptation, when we criticize, is to think it important to remember only what the other guy did wrong, and not bother to recall when and where it was, or the evidence that proves he really did what we think he did, or the reasoning by which we can prove the offending words or deeds were actually wrong.

Another temptation we have is to enhance our allegation by calling it a general pattern rather than a single incident or two; because if it only happened once or twice, it wouldn't be that big a deal: but when we say "he always does it" then the guy must be a real jerk.

So we generalize. We accuse, "You never listen to anybody." But because we do not provide a single instance of when and where this has occurred, the person we criticize (1) can't remember a single time he committed the alleged offense; (2) knows it cannot be true that he "always" commits the alleged offense; and (3) wonders whether, if he knew what incident triggered the criticism, he would agree it would have been an offense, even if it had happened.

He cannot respond to us, because he has no idea what we are talking about. When our criticism is too general to be understood or answered, our speech becomes as dark and filthy and profane as if we were simply cursing. In fact, cursing is the spirit of imprecise criticism: our speech conveys no more useful information than cursing; our speech conveys only our frustration and rage, which is all that profanity conveys.

Our anger further complicates our victim's attempts to understand us. His efforts to learn the details of our criticism from us are met with our further generalizations and allegations, which add to the heap crying out for rectification.

America's Bill of Rights provides that each person charged with a crime shall be given a "Bill of Particulars" explaining when and where the crime is alleged to have been committed, and what law defines it as a crime. To do less, that is, to generalize, is to deprive the accused of either the right to defend himself, if the allegation is unfounded, or to repent, if the allegation is founded!

Many of us say we don't mind being criticized, but then others wonder why we appear to resist criticism when we get it. Although clear, concise, and irrefutable criticism has its own discomforts, criticism, of all the communications experienced by a church which dares to pass the mike, (or experienced by any marriage which hopes to last) must be specific enough to be understandable.

Accusatory generalizations about people not present. A group is unlikely to object to an unsupported generalization that accuses a common enemy who isn't present to defend himself. But it should. Were the purpose only to exult in self righteousness like the Pharisee thanking God that he is not like that nasty Publican over there, that purpose would be well served. But if the purpose is preparation for confronting error in love in order to heal, arguable generalizations cripple our progress towards that goal.

Interrupt reasoning from an unproved premise

1 Corinthians 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, 
as in all churches of the saints.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth 
not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus 
knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself 
is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall 
not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how 
shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom 
do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if 
I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 

The Corinthians were turning into hermits. They weren't interacting with unbelievers, based on the premise that they should not be friendly with promiscuous people, under orders from Paul. Paul clarified that premise in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13.

What was the Pharisees' premise, upon which they reasoned that Jesus' power to cast out demons came from Satan? Was it that Jesus couldn't possibly conduct the power of God? It is unlikely the Pharisees were very persuasive anyway, although surely few dared say so.

The Matthew 12 and 1 Corinthians 5 passages only vaguely relate to the situation addressed here, where a speaker is not trying to deceive his hearers, as the Pharisees were, nor does a premise need to be corrected to restore listeners' confidence in a speaker, as in the case of Paul. In fact, these verses are left in only to illustrate the need for help finding more relevant Scriptures.

If a speaker’s argument seems to be based on a premise probably not shared by the group, then to let him continue uncorrected wastes everyone’s time including the speaker’s. He should be informed that to have any opportunity to persuade, he will need to back up and support his premise.

Here is a long way of explaining it: “Excuse me, but your argument appears to be based on the premise that .... which I do not share, and which I suspect others do not share. Therefore, if you continue building your argument, without offering evidence for the premise upon which it is based, you may be wasting the group’s time with an argument which cannot persuade. Therefore I respectfully request, if there is no objection from the group, that you back up and persuade us of the validity of your premise before you proceed to build your argument on it.”

This is a different problem than the “Jewish fables” problem mentioned later. In that situation, the entire group is warned to beware of getting caught up in allegations without evidence, and there is no train of logic which hinges on acceptance of the allegation. In this situation, only the speaker is careless about evidence, and there is a train of logic which will go nowhere without evidence for its premise, just as a train will go nowhere without fuel for its engine.

A speaker repeating himself should finish his point and sit down

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the 
heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be 
more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider 
not that they do evil. 2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart 
be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon 
earth: therefore let thy words be few. 3 For a dream cometh through the 
multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

Back up your claims

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, 
Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, 
and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father 
hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I 
said, I am the Son of God? 

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain 
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Matthew 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are 
the children of them which killed the prophets

Jesus and New Testament writers cited the Old Testament for authority 63 times, beginning “It is written”. If even they accepted the need to back up what they said, so should we! (More Scripture)

When you can, back up your claims with sources respected by the people you are trying to persuade, as Paul did on Mars’ Hill. Acts 17.

The strongest evidence that someone is guilty is his own words, whether or not he intended to admit guilt, as Jesus demonstrated with the Pharisees’ admission that they were descended from the murderers of prophets.

It takes hard work, lots of study, intense concentration, and testing by subjecting your theories to the scrutiny of the best experts you can find, to document an important original solution. For people that serious about being helpful, the equally difficult challenge will be getting others to scrutinize your evidence. Which will not be short, if it is truly helpful. Yet one must always be ready to back up one's hope, whether it is the great Hope of Eternal Life or the small hope of some "Good Work" God has made your mission. Because at some point good ideas will be scrutinized. One must be ready..

This rule is for people making a claim. The next rule is for those listening to a claim.

Don't Rush to Judgment

Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, 
it is folly and shame unto him.

John 7:50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, 
being one of them,) 51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, 
and know what he doeth?

Acts 17:11 These [Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, 
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched 
the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

Listening to all evidence before drawing your conclusion is so honored by God, that God even listens to mere man. And changes history according to our requests. [Examples: Exodus 32:9-14, Matthew 15:22-28, Isaiah 38:1-9, Isaiah 39] Well, the ability He grants us to move mountains into seas certainly changes geography.

If God is willing to listen even to us, we surely cannot be above listening to each other.

Proverbs 18:13, applied to discussion, says it is a “folly and a shame” for a group to adopt a position on a controversy before it has heard all the evidence for and against from concerned members.

And even then, all positions must be regarded as tentative enough to leave open the door for future evidence, since we are human and are hardly omniscient.

Also: an accusation against someone must not be believed before his defense has been patiently and fairly heard.

Listening to all the evidence takes time! It takes work! It takes study! But little is more "noble".

Yet opportunity often comes disguised as hard work. Telling yourself you don't care enough to do that work, or that you will leave it for someone with more time, or more expertise, is a decision to let a mountain of evil stand which God may have given you the power to help pull down.

Skepticism is good when it causes one to more carefully examine evidence; skepticism is evil when it is an excuse to not bother checking evidence

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come 
salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of 
his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused 
them before our God day and night. 

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh 
holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Skepticism helps when it identifies assumptions that need to be checked, if it comes with a Berean commitment to research facts, and if it is equally vigilant to check one’s own prejudices. Suspicion without this, suspicious of evidence, stoked for its entertainment value, starts wars, keeps America divided, unable to heal, and resistant to revival, keeping out salvation and the Kingdom of God.

Discipline

No doctrinal test is a condition for participation

1 Corinthians 14:24 (BBE)  But if all are teaching as prophets, 
and a man without faith or knowledge comes in, he is tested 
[KJV: convinced. Greek: ελεγχω confuted] by all, he is judged 
[Greek: ανακρινω, scrutinized, interrogated] by all;
25 (ERV)  The secret things in their heart will be made known. 
So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, "Without 
a doubt, God is here with you."

1 Corinthians 5:9  I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company 
with fornicators: 10  Yet not altogether with the fornicators of 
this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; 
for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11  But now I have 
written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a 
brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, 
or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 

1 Corinthians 14 makes clear that unbelievers are welcome in Christian meetings. That of course is the practice of every Christian church. It is also the practice of every Christian church that in meetings where conversation is allowed for members, it is also allowed for visitors, including unbelievers. Of course in the primary meetings, conversation is generally not allowed for anyone.

1 Corinthians 14 makes clear that unbelieving visitors will be invited into the conversation, and that it is their own answers to questions that will expose anything their hearts are hiding as Christians following God's discussion rules reach out in love.

1 Corinthians 5 underlines the fact that unbelief is not a basis for restriction of fellowship; therefore, unbelievers are invited by Scripture to be full participants in Christian meetings. Therefore, no doctrinal test - no set of doctrines one must agree to - can be a condition for participation.

Is unbelief a bar to formal church membership? The Bible does not say, because the Bible mentions no formal church membership. All the Christians in a city are called "the church" of that city.

Deliberate, persistent violation of a group's rules justifies a restriction on one's participation, but that is as possible for believers as for unbelievers.