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==Reasoning with Pastors==
 
==Reasoning with Pastors==
  
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'''Introduction'''
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This section is for reports of dialog with pastors about those "Noninvolvement Theologies" that are keeping the "Armies of God" from shining the Light (of what God says about our national abominations) out into the government-entangled Darkness outside the church walls - out in those forums where voters decide whether to pattern our laws after the principles of Heaven or of Hell. Even where pastors give occasional sermons identifying some of those abominations, and more rarely direct token political action, there remain prohibitions against other churchgoers besides the pastor being allowed, on church premises and through church communication channels, to discuss, reason, investigate, strategize, and take action together, not limited to the pastor's political knowledge, to shine that Light out where it will get rid of some of that Darkness. See [[Reasoning with Pastors - Introduction]] for Dave Leach's explanation of why he is publishing these reports of dialog with several pastors which, as they occurred over the past 30 years, he did not expect to make public.
  
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30 years ago, 1990, when I was a candidate for the Iowa legislature, I had hour-long interviews with the 30 pastors in my district about their theological reasons for not allowing information about any candidate or any government-entangled Biblical issue (called "politics") to be shared in any forum of their church.
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<blockquote>Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. - Matthew 5:13-16</blockquote>
  
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My two goals were to thoroughly understand their theological objections which had confused me in years prior, and second, to see if there were ''any'' accommodation they would consider of the need I see in Scripture to shine the "light" of what God says about national abominations out in the "darkness" outside the church walls - out in those forums where voters decide whether to pattern our laws after the principles of Heaven or of Hell.
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<blockquote>Thou shalt not mix politics and religion. - 2 Denominations 3:16</blockquote>
  
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There was to be no accommodation. No pulpit announcements, no bulletin boards, no permission for those handful of members so inclined to meet on church property to organize to take action on issues identified in their pastor's sermons with which government had become entangled.  
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<blockquote>Thou shalt not talk about anything controversial in church. That is, anything important enough that the discovery of disagreement in another is disturbing. - 1 Controversies 23</blockquote>
  
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I tape recorded most of those interviews, for my own study. At that time there was no internet to post them. No access to radio or TV that I had. There were books, and I had started publishing the Prayer & Action Weekly News, and my studies of pastors' answers resulted in my first self-published book, "The Gift of Governments". Subtitle: "An assault on the noninvolvement theologies crippling the Armies of God."
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[[Reasoning with Pastors - Introduction]]
  
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But I didn't name any pastors or churches in the book; although no pastor had told me his conversation was "off the record", and the pastors knew I published the Prayer & Action News, I hadn't specifically told anyone I intended to report our conversations; indeed I had not foreseen any reason to. (I have not posted the book online yet. Here is a [http://saltshaker.us/Salt/GiftofGovernments.pdf 9 page summary].)
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[[Pastor Terry Amann, Church of the Way]]
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In the years since, I have had similarly in-depth conversations with hundreds more pastors, many while spending months or years as members of their churches. Never before now have I published my records of those dialogs. By now I have lost track of most of that information. I thought often of publishing those conversations, but I refrained myself. Although they were never officially confidential, they ''seemed'' confidential, and I felt certain that publishing them would irritate the pastors. Besides, what was the point? If I could not persuade a pastor to conform his routines to those the Word of God urges, even after in many cases agreeing with me and in no case seriously refuting me, who ''else'' would care? And indeed today I have no idea if anyone will want to read any of this writing which consumes so much of my labor in these final years of my life.
 
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Especially since what I ask of pastors and all Christians has grown: not only that Light be allowed out into government-entangled Darkness, but that others besides the pastor be allowed to
 
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No, from the beginning I didn't even want the pastor
 
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But now, on the eve of Memorial Day, 2020, after another hour of prayer, I sense it is time to begin posting those records which I still have.
 
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Beginning with Pastor Terry Amann, whose response to me has been the most incomprehensible of any pastor I have ever talked with. Perhaps some patient soul somewhere on this planet may find this against their will, and take the time to explain to me what I am missing. I find myself utterly alone in the urgency of my concern and my restlessness to find others ready to meet together in a way that accepts the rest of the blessings God is waiting for His People "who are called by My Name" to accept.
 
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Which raises another question: if no one else will stand with me, doesn't that prove I am wrong? But if I am wrong, won't someone, anyone, show me where I am wrong? That hasn't happened yet. If someone tells me, for example,
 

Revision as of 18:35, 23 May 2020

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Politics

God's Coronavirus Cure in 3 Verses (Probably a situation that brings most politics to a screeching halt, shutting down entire legislatures, should be classified as "political")

Judicial Accountability Act: How Legislatures can stop judges from legislating

This Judge ruled like a Christian Historian

Climate Change

Life

A Law Designed to Force Courts to Address Evidence of Life

Four Drawbacks of a "No Right to Abortion" State Constitutional Amendment

Answers to Lawmakers' Objections

The consensus of court-recognized fact-finders that babies are people even before they are born

Abortion Law Alabama

Missouri’s Encyclopedia of Abortion Arguments

Abortion

Outreach to 2800 Republican Lawmakers in 30 States where Republicans Control Both Chambers

Forsythe

Immigration

Deadly Immigration Rhetoric

Many of our ancestors documented THEMSELVES

The Immigration Solution best for our Economy, our Security, and our Faith

Cruz, Trump, Keyes, and the Bible

"Never Trump" and the Bible

Democrat Platform on immigration

Republican Platform on immigration

Republican and Democrat Immigration Platforms are Similar

Immigration (Comparing what parties and candidates say)

Setting Immigration Quotas - the Mystery of the Wages (There is no measure of the number best for citizens)

Whose Expertise Inspired Our Immigration Laws? (U.S. immigration policy is driven by those who have least studied the key facts)

Personal to Ted Cruz

Sudan

Saving South Sudan (How refugees can open U.S. refugee quotas so their families can come, and How Refugees can heal the government of South Sudan so their families won't have to leave)

Saving South Sudan - general discussion

Optional: Turn your Response into a New Article

Principles of the proposed UTSS Constitution in the Bible

Other Political Issues

SinTiny.gif

Spiritual Preparation for Action

Multitude Of Counsellors Project

Upon this Rock I will build my Congress <> Part Two: WHICH "Rock"? <> Part Three: Politics in the Gates <> Part Four: Congregation/Congress v. “Church” <> Part Five: The Congress of Living Stones

What God says we will accomplish by meeting His way (Invitation to join a "Multitude of Counsellors", Proverbs 15:22)

Bible Guidelines for Relationships

The Bible on Equal Rights for Women: Did God Write "For Men Only" on the Pulpit?

Psychology vs. the Bible

What we can Pray for that isn't Forbidden by Prophecy

The fewer who are willing to manage the interactions of citizens, the closer their only possible government comes to being a dictatorship

Evidence that in God All Nations May Trust

Shining "the Gospel" Outside the Bushel

Gospel Light turned off by Christians

Reasoning with Pastors

This section is for reports of dialog with pastors about those "Noninvolvement Theologies" that are keeping the "Armies of God" from shining the Light (of what God says about our national abominations) out into the government-entangled Darkness outside the church walls - out in those forums where voters decide whether to pattern our laws after the principles of Heaven or of Hell. Even where pastors give occasional sermons identifying some of those abominations, and more rarely direct token political action, there remain prohibitions against other churchgoers besides the pastor being allowed, on church premises and through church communication channels, to discuss, reason, investigate, strategize, and take action together, not limited to the pastor's political knowledge, to shine that Light out where it will get rid of some of that Darkness. See Reasoning with Pastors - Introduction for Dave Leach's explanation of why he is publishing these reports of dialog with several pastors which, as they occurred over the past 30 years, he did not expect to make public.

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. - Matthew 5:13-16
Thou shalt not mix politics and religion. - 2 Denominations 3:16
Thou shalt not talk about anything controversial in church. That is, anything important enough that the discovery of disagreement in another is disturbing. - 1 Controversies 23

Reasoning with Pastors - Introduction

Pastor Terry Amann, Church of the Way

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